All-In Recruitment is a podcast by Manatal focusing on all things related to the recruitment industry’s missions and trends. Join us in our weekly conversations with leaders in the recruitment space and learn their best practices to transform the way you hire.
This transcript has been edited for clarity.
Lydia: Welcome to the All In Recruitment podcast by Manatal, where we explore best practices, learnings, and trends with leaders in the recruitment space. If you like our content, please subscribe to our channels on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify to stay tuned for our weekly episodes.
My name is Lydia, and joining us today is Alex Her co-founder of The EB Space. Thanks for joining us again, Alex. Nice to see you again.
Alex: Yes. Thanks. It has been a while, but I appreciate you having me on again.
Navigating AI and ROI in Employer Branding
Lydia: Tell us about The EB Space. What is the mission behind it, and the space that you are in?
Alex: A little background about that. Obviously, the EB stands for employer branding. It is a free Discord community that I started with my good friend from the United Kingdom, Claire de Souza.
Our mission is to educate and connect with multiple employer brand practitioners across the globe. We want to be more than just a community that is connected here in the United States or the United Kingdom. We want to be more global, help mature and grow the employer branding world, and take it to the next level, and teach others along the way.
Lydia: So, it's a community of people sharing their best practices. Is that how it works?
Alex: Yes, best practices, therapy, or whatever the case may be. Talking about what is out there and how to approach things. It is all free and on Discord, and it is something that is available for anybody who is an in-house practitioner or an external consultant.
Lydia: Speaking of this space, have there been any standout trends you have noticed in the past few years? Especially since we are seeing a lot more usage of AI? Has that really changed the trends in the employee branding space?
Alex: Yes, definitely seeing a lot of AI. So, I think people see the worst in AI. There are no robots coming to take our jobs when it comes to that. I think it is helping out teams of one or a couple of folks to take care of automating the manual tasks and help practitioners and different functions that companies to be more strategic where I think we should be going.
There is a big push for the return on investment (ROI) behind the work we do. Because there are a lot of great things we do, but we are always stuck in a state where we are more qualitative than quantitative. I think that is something, at least it is my personal mission to fix that. So, a lot of what I have been diving into and talking about lately has been that, and I know others are doing the same.
The other big thing I feel is employee advocacy. So, really diving into that and not just saying, "Hey, I have a program," but providing use cases, showing value, showing ROI, and really getting that out there to take advantage of what you already have access to, treasure and love, which is your teammates, your employees, who are the best source that will help you attract people versus going out there to buy tons of different platforms that are great, but do not necessarily work for you all the time unless you work them and have a strategy.
Cutting Job Board Costs with Organic Branding
Lydia: In terms of demonstrating ROI, is there a specific way to approach that when you are building an employer brand function in-house?
Alex: I think it really depends on where you are in the building phase. Has the employer brand ever been managed before? If it has never been managed before, I could have a field day with that. Anybody would. Your ROI and showing that is, let me get a couple of thousand, a couple of million visits to the career page. Let me get the vanity metrics of impressions, clicks on the social channels.
If you are high-level, you are looking at, “Okay, it is great. But, where can I show that the work we are doing internally is actually helping us, maybe not rely so much on job boards?” Maybe we are not using so much when it comes to recruitment marketing, and we are doing all that internally and organically with what we are doing, we are creating stuff internally, we are showing that we are getting people butts in seats, time-to-hire is going down, which shows if people get into their seats sooner, they in turn are working on projects.
They are working for the company much quicker, generating profit much sooner rather than later. That is a huge ROI there. So, aspects of that will help you get there if you add a little more maturity.
Lydia: Does retention play a role in demonstrating employee retention and ROI as well?
Alex: I think to an extent (it does). I mean, I do not knock on that theory. I think we help out a little bit, but maybe with the work I do, if I feature someone in a video on Facebook, LinkedIn, or TikTok, that is going to be the factor in them staying with my company or their company versus moving on to the next. Because ultimately it is about retention. But if they get offered 50% more, they are not going to care about the videos they are in. They are going to the new company. That is the truth.
What Gen Z Wants: Impact, Remote Work, and AI
Lydia: Moving on to a recent research that shows the substantial generational differences in how important employer brand is to attract the right talent, 60% of Gen Z considers it very important compared to 32% of baby boomers. So, looking at these statistics, what are some ways to approach the generational differences in employee branding strategies?
Alex: I think it goes back to the HR approach and employer branding. You need to meet people where they are.
If your goal is to connect with Generation Z and you are just staying on LinkedIn, it is probably not the best approach because people have LinkedIn profiles, just like they have CVs and cover letters, but that is not where they play. You have to look at options like Snapchat, TikTok, Threads, Blue Sky, other platforms, even X. That is where a lot of people are. You want to get on those platforms.
You want to get something in front of them that is going to really resonate with them. But outside of that, I think it is short-form content.
Video was important three years ago, like this podcast. It still is, but what are you doing with that? I love YouTube, but I am not Generation Z. I am a millennial, but I love short-form content like the lazy version that gives that to me, where it is easier to work with and serves that to me directly, is going to TikTok.
If it is easily accessible for me to look at and capture my attention within a minute or less than that, also something that is going to work for Generation Z. So, I think really looking at that and thinking like somebody who is from that generation and put something in front of them is going to really speak to them.
Lydia: Is it just building on the things you just shared? Are there specific elements of an employer brand that resonate most with younger talent?
Alex: Yes, get past the "Hey, we are hiring." Salary-wise, they know what they are going to get if you put it out there. But if not, share that with them. But share what the opportunity is for them. Instead of "come make us better," what can we do for you, the job seeker? Are you offering them the ability to work remotely? That is huge because Generation Z also loves being digital nomads. That is an amazing opportunity, and not a lot of companies are doing that anymore. What great things can they work on? Because they have options.
They are highly skilled, definitely many steps above those of us from the millennial generation and Generation X. They know what they want. They are intentional. They have done their work. They are not guessing as to what is going on. So, really selling them on exactly what they can work on, the impact of the projects. If you are working with AI, put that out there because that matters to people. If it is cybersecurity, also, if there is a global impact or if it is impacting consumers worldwide, something to that effect, I think, works for them. Instead of simply just dangling a position out there and saying, "Hey, come join us. We are great." That is not going to work for them.
The Long Road to Global Gender Equality
Lydia: I'm going to reference another report here, which says that it suggests global gender equality will not be achieved for another, get ready for this, 134 years. So what might be your take on this?
Alex: I cannot disagree with that because I think for companies such as where I work for a full-time job, we do a great job. We are great at being upfront with our approach and showcase that on our career page, but that is like one company out of, I mean, I cannot name another company I have applied to or I have worked at that does that.
They are very upfront about where their gender equality is globally. In some countries, we are still at the point where now we are “Okay it is acceptable for ladies to work with men, right?” Outside of that, there is not even equality when it comes to the tech industry. You do not have a lot of female engineers and are lacking in a lot of areas where I think it has to be something that, if we want to fix that, in my opinion, the equality has to start at a lower level where you are working with. Because we try to fix it at such a high level, and I think that is the wrong approach. It is like addressing a lot of those, whatever you can at a lower level, before individuals make that decision on where they want to go and what kind of careers they want to pursue.
Companies have to, instead of putting social posts out there or statements when they are forced to, make that has to be something that is ingrained in their culture, mission, and values. Until that happens, it could be 130 years, it could be longer, but it could also be a whole lot sooner if it becomes a priority for them.
Connecting with Job Seekers with Personalized AI
Lydia: Moving on to technology, Alex, we spoke a little about AI earlier, but there are different use cases for these things. So what kind of emerging trends or technologies do you believe will most significantly impact the space in the near future?
Alex: I think AI is key, right? Because, without diving into AI, everyone just thinks that “Okay, there is like only one type of AI.” Obviously, there are many different ways to take that, right? You can do your content marketing via AI, right? You can create images and videos. We are still exploring exactly how that would work. It is not like a one type of technology that solves everything for everyone because it may work for one company or one practitioner, but it may not work for the rest.
But I definitely think that there is one that is going to help out. It is not just videos, images, or text. Also, the editing of videos. I have used OpusClip, which is phenomenal. Instead of slicing and dicing stuff or using QuickTime Player, it can do that and have ten videos in five minutes. That is game time or game changer, I would say. Just a few examples, but I think we are still scratching the surface. There is a lot more we can do with AI to change what we are doing.
Lydia: There are also different ways of using that in terms of having an AI chatbot or an actual persona on the career page that would speak to anyone who has visited that career page. So, what is your take on using an AI personality to speak to those keen to find out more about the company?
Alex: I think it is good, but it has to be trained because even further back than three years, when we last spoke, there were AI bots. But they are not really conversational. I think that the technology is getting there where they can be conversational, but the training and dedication to that have to be put into place. You can only answer so many questions, and eventually it has to go to an actual live person.
Aligning with Stakeholders for Branding Success
Lydia: If you could change one common misconception about employer branding, Alex, what would it be?
Alex: One common misconception I would change is that we just do stuff on social. That we simply try to recruit people because there is a lot we do. But no one sees all the work and the background, how everything connects to make a top of funnel approach that eventually leads to an applicant or hire, and to help a company be seen as a company of choice. There are so many things that happen, and that is always discounted and a misconception.
Lydia: In terms of working cohesively with marketing, HR change management, or branding, what are some ways to approach in making sure that you have got your function clear and you have got them as your key stakeholders?
Alex: Knowing what you are dealing with, and by that I mean, in a lot of cases, we walk into positions where we join the communications team, the marketing team, or maybe the talent acquisition team. It is almost a guarantee that the other teams do not know we are coming in You are a little bit on the thin ice because they think you are trying to do what they are doing, but it is not.
The fun thing about our job and employer branding is that we kind of do a little bit of each. We need to work with them to identify that and establish rapport with them quickly. I will not wait until there is a problem until you eventually get things all set. They should be the first people you talk to in the first few weeks when you join a company. You are talking to marketing about what platforms you have? How can you partner together and identify your audience? Let them know we are doing marketing and branding, but my target audience is different. See what tools and platforms they have available for you to use and leverage because it is going to save you time and money from going out there and buying from your budget.
Then, when it comes to communications, they are the people who can help get that message really spread out and help publicize things internally and get everything in front of leaders and everyone to see, say, for maybe all-hands calls or town halls. So, that is where you definitely need them. If you are not in a talent position with them because you need to tie the work you are doing back to something, it has to show value. If you are sitting on the marketing communications side, you can look at impressions and clicks, but how are you driving towards something?
If you are helping the talent acquisition team, you can know if they have a headcount for the year and maybe what their priorities are for the quarter. The work, all the cool and fun things you are doing, the videos, the graphics, the messaging, the advocacy, go towards something, and okay, maybe I am driving it towards their initiatives in APAC, EMEA, and North America. You can tie that back to something that is having a big impact versus blowing a whole lot of money, time, and effort on something that does not check the boxes for your TA teammates.
Mastering the Basics to Excel in Employer Branding
Lydia: Finally, Alex, what advice would you give someone starting out in the employee branding space?
Alex: I would say if you are jumping in, there are a lot of certificates to become an employer brand specialist. I do not think that helps you get ahead. It is nice if you are already on your journey. But I recommend working on your foundational skills.
Do not just take your everyday usage of TikTok, Facebook, and LinkedIn and say, "Hey, I can run a company one." Actually, do your work, volunteer, and gain that skill set. Definitely lean into using HubSpot to work on content marketing skills like recruitment marketing. Know your SEO on how to run simple campaigns. Google has a lot of great free classes that you can take that will help you out. Stories Inc. also has a lot of courses that can help with content marketing.
Then the other piece is just really knowing, refined, and confident in your project management skills, because what you are going to need to do is really connect, like we talked about, with working with other stakeholders. That is going to be something you do not just do one time. You do it all the time.
If you have your basic skills down and if you have a sense of recruitment, even better, all those foundational skills can go from there. Then that will help you jump into any team as an entry-level specialist or strategist because you get the foundational skills. I can teach you employer branding. As long as you can do that, I can do something with you. Any leader can do the same. But if you do not have anything there, not even half the skills to succeed, it is going to be rather daunting. It is going to scare you from being successful, and that is not what you want to be doing. You want to put yourself in a position to succeed and be willing to learn.
Lydia: Thank you very much, Alex, for your time and all these insights. It is a great pleasure to have you back on the show after so long. It's been three years, isn't it? So, whoever wants to connect with you, where can they find you?
Alex: Yes, definitely. So, feel free to hit me up on LinkedIn or TikTok. I am more than happy to chat with you. I don't care where you're located. My Calendly is open to connect with anyone. I just love talking about employer branding and helping people succeed.
Lydia: Thanks again, Alex. We have been in conversation with Alex Her co-founder of The EB Space. Thank you for joining us, and stay tuned for more weekly episodes from All In Recruitment. Find us on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify.