All-In Recruitment is a podcast by Manatal focusing on all things related to the recruitment industry’s missions and trends. Join us in our weekly conversations with leaders in the recruitment space and learn their best practices to transform the way you hire.
This transcript has been edited for clarity.
Lydia: Welcome to another episode of All In Recruitment by Manatal, where we explore best practices, learnings, and trends with leaders in the recruitment space. If you like our content, please subscribe to our channels on YouTube and Spotify to stay tuned for our weekly episodes.
I'm your host, Lydia, and with us this week is workplace culture expert Dr. Joey Faucette, who is also the founder and president of Work Positive. Glad to have you with us, Dr. Joey.
Dr. Joey: I am absolutely delighted to be with you today. Thank you so much.
What Gen Z Wants: Safety, Growth, and Respect
Lydia: Your work revolves around transforming workplace culture. So, tell us why this has become a critical part of running businesses today, Dr. Joey?
Dr. Joey: Yes, well, there are multiple causalities behind the rise of an emphasis on work culture, one of which is the global economy. You and I today are proof of that, right? We are 12 hours apart and on two different sides of the globe. The fact that you can attract, as an employer, top talent from anywhere on the globe means that employees have a choice.
Employees, especially Generation Z, are always going to gravitate toward that culture in today’s work environment that has psychological safety, respect, learning, and development—these kinds of traits are built into it. That work culture supports all of that, and that is why work culture is so important today, if you want to innovate, create, and become extremely profitable.
Lydia: The work culture that you speak of, this transformation process is very much an internal process, isn't it? And that gets reflected outside when you want to attract talent. So, how does it work when you want to transform a workplace culture from within, where you have multiple generations working together at the same time?
Dr. Joey: The multiple generation factor is a huge challenge for many of us. I guess that is a nice word; for either of us, it is a constant nightmare. Just recognizing basic humanity in the work culture today is part of it. My generation, Lydia—the Baby Boomers—you know, we were just told, "Suck it up, Skippy. Put your head down. Do what you are told." It was a command-and-control kind of environment.
Today, with Millennials and Generation Z becoming more than 50 percent of the workforce—and certainly the top talent from which your listeners are going to want to recruit—they insist on, even demand, a work culture in which they can collaborate, in which they get a coach. In fact, mentoring is the number one request of Generation Z. They are also interested in reverse mentoring—that is, mentoring someone my age in a certain skill set or something like that. That difference in expectations, generationally, really stretches the work culture.
There are a lot of Boomers my age who are actually selling their companies now for pennies on the dollar because of this frustration with the multiple needs among generations and their inability to handle it. That creates an amazing opportunity for investors as well as those who understand how to manage and lead multiple generations and respect their basic differences.
The Five Practices of the Work Positive Framework
Lydia: Now, in your Work Positive framework, you have a framework that can be used to transform workplace culture. So, in this Work Positive framework, how can recruiters and even hiring managers be able to identify candidates who could contribute to a positive work culture beyond just technical skills?
Dr. Joey: Well, for more on the Work Positive framework, your listeners can go to workpositivebook.com, and I am happy to send them a free copy of it just so they can understand the framework even more.
In terms of the framework, let me give you a quick rundown of the five core practices. The first one is Perceive. That has to do with a positive mental mindset. The second is Conceive. That is all about how to form, create, and sustain positive relationships. The third is Believe. That is the engagement of employees with their work. The fourth is Achieve, which I know you have a particular interest in.
That is productivity, because we know from Harvard Business Review studies and other research that companies that are serious about architecting a positive work culture see at least a 30 percent increase in productivity among their employees.
The fifth is Receive. This is the recognition and expression of gratitude factor, both within and outside companies, so with customers as well as within your teams.
Now, how can you hire people who do that? I love to ask questions. I am an executive coach, a Professional Certified Coach with the International Coaching Federation, and powerful questions are how we learn and help others transform their own personal culture, as well as a work culture, if they are a leader. Just asking the recruit various questions, like “What is your morning routine?” gives you an opportunity to discover if they are intentional about personal development, mindset, and things like that. “Tell me about a successful work relationship you had.” That really gets at the Conceive core practice. Then, for Believe, you are looking after emotional engagement there. “Tell me about your best day ever at work.” That is going to really reveal what engages them, rather than just doing a pulse survey. You now have something demonstrable in an action that you know that person enjoys taking.
For the Achieve core practice: “Tell me what helps you get into the flow of work—when you feel like you are really getting the work done.” And then that fifth question is a way to discover how they prefer to be recognized. “If you did a great job on a task, what would be the most meaningful way I could recognize you and reward you for that task?” Rather than assuming that our culture has a one-size-fits-all kind of practice, I have now personalized it to that individual and shown a great deal of interest in them.
How to Spot Kevin Culture in Your Team
Lydia: Dr. Joey, what is the Kevin Culture, as you call it? What does it look like, and where does it manifest?
Dr. Joey: Yes, Lydia, just imagine the most toxic culture you have ever worked in, one where there is bullying and backbiting and a negative atmosphere. When you look forward to Friday more than Monday, that is Kevin Culture. I named it Kevin Culture for a couple of reasons, but the most interesting is that I had a client who was describing her boss.
The Society for Human Resource Management, of course, tells us that at least 57% of all people leave a job because of a bad boss, and two-thirds of those who stay are thinking about leaving because of that same bad boss. So, bad bosses are a problem. This woman was going on and on about her bad boss, and I said, “Well, just for a frame of reference, because this conversation is confidential, what’s the boss’s name?” And with all the venom you can imagine in her voice, she spewed out, “Kevin.” I expected her head to start turning or something. It was that intense.
So, Kevin Culture is that culture that most of us, at some point in our journeys, have worked in. The opportunity to take one step away from Kevin Culture is through that framework, the Work Positive framework. Just pick one of those five core practices. They are bundles of habits that anyone can learn, regardless of where you are on the team or in an organizational chart.
Pick one of those core practices and then pick one tactic, one thing you can do starting today, to help build that positive mindset, or those positive relationships, or to engage yourself, or to become more productive, or to recognize a teammate. Just do one thing, and that begins moving you away from Kevin Culture.
Because literally, Lydia, you see what you look for. When you begin looking for those opportunities to improve the culture, you find them. It is just that in Kevin Culture, there are so many issues, it is hard to know where to start.
Lydia: How do you know when the culture in a team is actually Kevin Culture? How do you identify or even establish that?
Dr. Joey: You wake up in the morning with a headache or a terrible pain in your stomach. You have to convince yourself to go to work, even if the boss or the people are disrespectful towards others in conversations or constantly pointing out mistakes of someone else, or there are obvious signs of bullying and things.
Culture Begins in the Mind
Lydia: What are your top three recommendations when it comes to creating a workplace culture that keeps, nurtures, and even retains their top talent?
Dr. Joey: The first thing would be to recognize that you do have control over your own destiny. You can choose to work positively even in a Kevin Culture. Does it require a lot more energy? Sure, it does—but you can create your own personal culture, if you will, in the midst of that.
The second thing I would say is to go back to those five core practices and just choose one. If I were to choose for you, Lydia, I would choose the Perceive core practice as a great place to start. Because the positive work culture starts and stops in your head first. What are your thoughts? What do you find yourself focusing on? Is it the problems or the opportunities?
This is far more than simply thinking, “If I believe I can dunk a basketball, I will.” I never quite achieved that feat, even though people shorter than me have. However, it gives you an opportunity to focus on your goals. As soon as you get clarity within yourself about what those positive goals are—and how you can move your culture forward within the Kevin culture—your mind goes to work on closing those gaps and solving the challenge in front of you. The way presents itself, and there is the path in front of you.
That is where I would start: with the Perceive core practice and creating a positive mindset.
Lydia: Could you walk us through your achievement prescription and how this can be applied, maybe specifically to talent acquisition and even wider team building?
Dr. Joey: That is a really big question. Those two applications have a fertile field for planting and harvesting. The achievement prescription, Lydia, really focuses on all five of the core practices, but particularly the first four.
Attention is the first part of the prescription. What do you give your attention to? Positive thoughts and positive people are where we want the culture to transform, so that you are growing positive people and thinking positive thoughts. Give your attention to positive people and positive thoughts.
Intention is really the Believe core practice. You are emotionally engaged with your work. Simon Sinek talks about it as your “why.” You are engaging your “why” with the daily activities in which you find yourself and connecting that to the mission of the company, because that is the noblesse oblige—the culture that is larger than you, the problem that the company is solving.
When your attention is coupled with your intention, the key to attention plus intention is action. I can sit at my desk or in my cubicle, or in my home office and think about these things. I can intend these things all I want. I can be with people, but until I take action, that is where the achievement prescription really soars. Because you now have the confidence built up because you have the critical mass moving forward. Your thoughts and your relationships are positive. You are choosing to spend more time with positive people than with negative people—the Kevins, right? Your intentions are set emotionally, and now it is time to act. That confident trust in the results allows you to zigzag through the process. You will make mistakes. You will learn from them—those are really learning experiences—and you move forward.
Now, how do we apply the achievement prescription to two different fields—you asked about recruiting and team building.
First, in recruiting, I would go right back to the questions and ask, “Tell me about the team you work with now.” You will learn so much from the way that person describes those individuals they spend the most time with. If the individual describes those people in a certain way, that is what they will expect when they come to your position. It gives you a great opportunity to say, “Let me distinguish our teams from the ones you just described,” or you may learn that if they talk about that team in a negative fashion, they will talk about your team in the same way.
Another example: ask, “What was your best day at work ever?” That tells you how their intentions align with the company mission and related values.
In terms of team building, you just walk right through the five core practices and help the team develop a positive mindset and positive relationships. The interesting thing is that when you are developing those positive relationships, you start to notice a self-selection process. There are always individuals—Kevins, if you will—who are not going to engage in things like psychological safety, mutual support, and benefit. They are not going to listen to others. So, they will self-select and move to another team when the positive energy becomes too strong within the current team, or it gives you an amazing opportunity to say, “Hey Joey, how do you think you fit with the team here?” That opens the door to self-reflection and growth at that point.
Lydia: Now, for a company that is maybe steeped in negative culture, Kevin Culture, as you call it, for them to make that turnaround using the work positive framework and even identifying the pockets of Kevin Culture around the company, how long, in terms of timeframe, how long do you think this would take in terms of for a full transformation to actually happen? Is that even possible?
Dr. Joey: Well, compare-and-compete kind of statements aside, full transformation would be very individual for each company. Things get messier before they get better because you are confronting the reality that there is some toxic behavior—some Kevin culture behavior—in the company. Some individuals will self-select, but others will dig their heels in. The more you try to create that positive work culture, the more they are going to resist, and very honest conversations have to happen.
What we like to do—our company and our affiliate companies—is look at a three-year process. Our goal is to avoid making the company dependent on us to be the transforming catalyst. Our goal is to empower, equip, and educate the company to put in place standard operating procedures and kinds of activities that help the company sustain, build, and grow. Then we can be called back in during year four or five for a tune-up or something like that.
Build Culture Before You Recruit
Lydia: So, if a company wants to transform its recruitment approach to build a more positive or productive culture, what would be your first three recommended steps?
Dr. Joey: Step one would be to ensure that you have that positive work culture within. Before I ever go out and invite somebody to join a team, I want to make sure we are presenting the best team possible.
That leads to the second step. Because that best team is in place, it then becomes a matter of attraction, like we were talking about earlier. I want that recruit to meet with the team individually. I want them to sit in a team meeting and experience that environment. I want them to experience part of the team. So my team has to be on top of its game.
We like to refer to it in Work Positive Nation, Lydia, as: we grow people and profits. We want the recruit to get immensely immersed—as much as possible—into the people who are growing positively right from the start. So, number one: make sure your team culture is as positive as it possibly can be. Number two: allow the recruit to come and experience that. Then he or she is in a better position to decide, “Is this the team I want to be on?”
And then, number three: ask the team, “Hey, what did you think of Joey when he was with us? He spent a day or two here. What vibe did you get from him? How do you think he would fit? How could we help support Joey if he comes to work with us?” Those are—well, I know I rattled off three really powerful questions right there—but those are the kinds of questions you want to ask the team.
So those are the three steps I would take.
Lydia: Well, thank you very much for your time and all these insights that you've just shared with us, Dr. Joey. So, for those who are listening in who might want to pick up a conversation with you about Work Positive, or Kevin Culture may have another name to share with you, maybe, where can they connect with you?
Dr. Joey: LinkedIn is our playground. That's where we share tons of content. Our Work Positive podcast airs weekly, and I get to talk to thought leaders and preferred employer HR leaders around the world. So, you can listen to that wherever this podcast is heard. Also, on LinkedIn, we have all kinds of materials.
I give away a free book every month to whoever asks for it because I'm on a very active book-writing schedule. By the way, they're short books. You can read them in about an hour. So, feel free to come over to LinkedIn and we'll connect up there. Just ask, you'll receive.
Lydia: Thank you again, Dr. Joey. We have been in conversation with Dr. Joey Faucette, workplace culture expert and founder and president of Work Positive. Thank you for joining us, and remember to subscribe to stay tuned for more weekly episodes from All In Recruitment.
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