All-In Recruitment is a podcast by Manatal focusing on all things related to the recruitment industry’s missions and trends. Join us in our weekly conversations with leaders in the recruitment space and learn their best practices to transform the way you hire.
This transcript has been edited for clarity.
Lydia: Welcome to the All In Recruitment podcast by Manatal, where we explore best practices, learnings, and trends with leaders in the recruitment space. If you like our content, please subscribe to our channels on YouTube and Spotify to stay tuned for our new episodes. My name is Lydia, and joining us today is Jason Averbook, Senior Partner and Global Leader, Digital HR Strategy at Mercer.
Thanks for joining us, Jason. It is a pleasure to have you.
Jason: Lydia, it is great to be here. Thank you so much for having me. I have been looking forward to this conversation. We have had it planned for a while.
Jason’s HR Journey and Priorities
Lydia: It has been weeks in the making, so let us start at the beginning. Jason, what sparked your interest in HR? I understand that you have been in the industry for over twenty-five years, so how has your perspective evolved during this time?
Jason: We definitely have to have a spark, because if I look behind you, it is dark outside, and if I look behind me, it is dark outside. We are recording in the middle of the night or early in the morning, depending on where we are.
It is really interesting, the background that I have and how it sparked my interest in HR. I always say my parents did not raise me to be in HR, and somehow I am here. My interest as a kid was always technology, along with playing sports and doing band. I had a big interest in how things worked.
My mom was an educator, a teacher, and my dad was a businessperson. I really took the three together and combined teaching and the humanity side of it, capitalism and the business side of it, and technology. For the last three decades, I have been in this space of helping people be their best selves through the use of whatever technologies were available at the time, working toward business outcomes. That is really how I ended up in this space and have stayed in it, driving people to be their best selves.
Lydia: It is an interesting time to have all these three elements converge. This is a prime period for that, especially in HR.
Jason: I think it has always been a prime period. Every technology innovation makes it feel that way. Cloud computing did that. What we are really seeing now in the artificial intelligence era is a blending of humans and machines together, which is quite fascinating to lead.
Lydia: What are some areas that you are focusing on right now? What are some priorities moving into the new year or in the near future?
Jason: When we think about the world of HR, there are three buckets we focus on.
The first bucket is making sure we can do a good job counting heads, such as headcount reporting. We have to keep the lights on and know what our human capital is, where people are, and how they are paid.
The second bucket is making heads count. That is about talent, skills, how to grow people, keep them, develop them, and make sure they are engaged in the work they are doing.
The third bucket is the future, which is really the present, of humans and machines teaming together. It is about thinking how best to work, what humans are good and bad at, what machines are good and bad at, and how to blend the two together.
I am really excited about that third bucket. The other two have been around for a long time, and we have not gotten them right yet. There is still a lot of work to do. But that third bucket is about leapfrogging the profession and driving the best possible outcomes with humans and technology, both of which are constantly evolving. It is a unique time.
Lydia: It is a constantly iterative process, where you are always looking at what works and what does not. There is no real endpoint. Even the idea of future-proofing becomes a point of discussion.
Jason: I do not think future-proofing makes sense. I like the term, but we are not trying to proof for the future. We are trying to prepare for the future as best as we can.
We are recording this in 2025. Outside of work, it feels like 2025. Inside of work, it often feels like several years behind. We are humans outside of work and humans inside of work, and we deserve the same employee experience. We want to work with the same tools, and we want trust inside of work just as we do outside of work.
Defining Digital HR and Workforce Experience
Lydia: You have used the term digital HR before. What does digital HR really mean beyond implementing new software? More importantly, what is its impact on practitioners, candidates, and overall processes?
Jason: We break this into two buckets: digital and technology. Digital is a mindset. It is about what I want to achieve, how I drive change, how I design for the right audience, and how I move from rolling out processes to rolling out journeys.
Technology enables that mindset. Too often, we start with technology and think it will fix everything. It does not, without an aligned vision, audience-centric design, personalization, and a journey-based approach.
Being digital also means being agile and experimental. As an HR department, how does it feel to be a candidate? How do I design recruiting journeys so candidates feel part of them rather than going through them? Technology is just the software. We focus too much on it and not enough on the other components of digitization.
Lydia: With people, there is always the element of meeting expectations.
Jason: It is also about exceeding expectations. For a long time, we focused on minimum viable products instead of minimum lovable products. Today, people expect experiences that exceed expectations, and HR often falls short.
Lydia: When you talk about redesigning employee services to meet workforce expectations, what does that look like in practice?
Jason: It is about the capabilities we provide to candidates, applicants, employees, and alumni that drive their experience. If I apply for a job, I expect a confirmation within seconds, not days.
If I go to an intranet or portal looking for something, I should find it immediately. If I want my payslip, I should see it directly, not click through multiple menus.
We are still delivering technology as if we are in a world of menus instead of answers. That creates frustration for employees, managers, and candidates.
If I have to apply for a job and click through nineteen screens and enter the same data multiple times, that is a bad experience. I do not call these employee services. I call them employee experiences. I prefer experience centers over service centers and experience agents over service agents. The goal is to create an experience, not just reactive service.
Lydia: You covered several elements of the digital workforce experience. Is there anything else you would add that truly matters to employees?
Jason: It is about meeting people where they are, not where we are. If an employee does all their work on a mobile device, they should be able to do everything on that device. If they work on a laptop, the experience should be seamless there.
If someone works in a hybrid way, we need to blend those experiences appropriately. It should not be a one-size-fits-all approach. It should be individualized and personalized, using data to create an experience that feels like it is speaking to the individual.
Software alone fails at this. We are the architects and designers of the experience. The software brings it to life. At the center of a great experience is feeling. People should not know the name of the technology or the process. They should be able to get done what they need to do.
Leading Change: Mindset, Not Just Training
Lydia: A lot of this requires significant organizational change. What are some of the biggest mistakes you see HR leaders make when driving change?
Jason: The biggest mistake is treating change management as a last-minute activity. Change is not just teaching someone how to use a process. I think of change in two buckets: changefulness and change management.
Changefulness is opening your mind to change. Change management is teaching someone how to do something. Trusting the tools, the organization, and the value being delivered is critical.
Many organizations struggle with inertia and incrementalism. Inertia means it is too hard to change, so nothing changes. Incrementalism means making small improvements because people are exhausted. Both prevent meaningful change.
Lydia: Changefulness is a fascinating term.
Jason: I could see that reaction.
Lydia: Change management may be the easiest part. Changefulness feels like a longer journey.
Jason: Change should always be on. It should be your strategy, not your enemy. Every day, we should be talking about how we are evolving and bringing people along.
Organizations do not put enough emphasis on change, communication, engagement, culture, and learning and development. These are not silos. They all move together.
Advice for Talent Professionals: Reset HR Practices
Lydia: Final question. What advice would you give someone starting out in the talent space today?
Jason: Learn everything you can about what has worked in the organization, then push the reset button. Almost every organization needs a reset when it comes to talent.
Most HR practices are at least fifty years old. We still do annual performance reviews, annual engagement surveys, and cyclical feedback in a real-time world. We need to reset how all of this works using today’s technologies.
Organizations that do not do this will not be around in five years because their irrelevance will be very visible.
Lydia: Thank you, Jason. This has been a great conversation with many insights and points to think about when it comes to HR, digital transformation, and talent. For those who want to continue the conversation, what is the best way to reach you?
Jason: LinkedIn is the easiest. You can find my name in the show notes and reach out there.
Lydia: Thank you, Jason. We have been in conversation with Jason Averbook, Senior Partner and Global Leader, Digital HR Strategy at Mercer. Thank you for joining us.
Jason: Thank you, Lydia.
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